“Pugdemont is blackmailing the population. This is unacceptable.”

“Pugdemont is blackmailing the population. This is unacceptable.”

BarcelonaOnly three weeks ago, Clara Ponsati and Jordi Graupera announced the creation of a new political project, “The Hora”, which was scheduled to be presented to the community on April 23. The call for early elections has forced them to speed up deadlines, and they are now collecting signatures – they need more than 5,000 in Barcelona – to be able to run in the Catalan parliament elections.

Who will lead the nomination?

Jordi Grubera: One of us, but we won't say who yet.

Why do we need a fourth pro-independence option?

Clara Ponsati: It is the only pro-independence option. Others have shown, through facts, that they do not know how to do it, and some of them do not want to.

Does Puigdemont not know this or does he not want to?

C C: What we do know is that they had it all: the parliamentary majority, the mobilized people, the money, everything. Despite all this, they did nothing. It's not like they tried something and hit an insurmountable wall.

How will you achieve independence?

CP: With a social majority and control over institutions. This should have been done in October 2017.

C C: This question is based on the assumption that we will be bombed. If not, what is the difficulty? The government declares independence, takes control of institutions, public order and infrastructure, informs all concerned elements of what must be done, resists pressure from the international world, and enters into negotiations with international institutions to strengthen the new order. condition. The only thing in all these ranks is that there are those who think that the Spaniards will want to bomb us.

We are not thinking about bombing, but about prison, as happened in 2017. What would they do if they were ordered to go to prison?

CP: They went there voluntarily.

C C: We skip a lot of things that lead to prison, don't we? I remember the screenshot of the message he used Call for democracyWhich told people to go to the beach or make wine on the weekend after the Declaration of Independence.

What should have been said?

C C: Catalonia's independence will be achieved through a popular revolution, accompanied by a very firm stance on institutions and control of public order by the police loyal to the state. We have enough power to do this.

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CP: We have had enough. The interference of the past six years has weakened us. I realize that this scenario described by Jordi seems unlikely to me right away, but it's a matter of working towards it.

C C: In order to achieve independence, the threat of violence must be endured.

Wait until when?

CP: Even freedom is all they didn't try, and if they didn't see it in their heart and didn't do what they had to do to get to this point, they should have had the courage to tell the people of Catalonia the truth.

I was part of that government.

CP: I am the only person in that government who said on the night of October 1: “Shouldn't we achieve independence? Are we going to skip the referendum?” They said to me: “Yes, we will skip that.” I had just entered politics, had no experience and fell into a trap.

Why would today be different? How can you make the Mossos d'Esquadra able to exercise border control?

C C: What is the problem?

Don't see any?

CP: If there is a political authority, which you set up and decide that you are the government of that country, this should not be a problem. It is clear that the Mossos are not in the service of liberating the country at the present time.

The ANC proposed making political appointments in Mossos, to ensure a police presence on the side of the pro-independence project when the time comes. Do you think this is a good procedure?

C C: All of these are attempts to allay the great uncertainty of the people, assuming that no one will obey the government, that the police will join the Guardia Civil and that tanks will enter the Diagonal. The goal is the opposite. You have to make it difficult for the officer who is suspicious and you have to make it difficult for the Spanish state to intervene, because you have the government. You own the country, not them. The people of the country are already there.

What do you think of the Puigdemont announcement?

CP: Another round of watermelon. He is asking Catalans to vote for him so he can return, but I don't see any political project. It is another camouflage operation carried out by his party, as whenever elections are held, it camouflage the abbreviation.

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Is it good news for independence to return?

C C: We believe that new leadership is needed, and that the leadership of 2017 is not enough, and that includes Puigdemont. It's the third time he's said, “If you vote for me, I'll come back.” And he blackmails the population, knowing that there is a nostalgia to return to the moment of empowerment that was October 1st, and that you can try to find that motivation by looking at it. He takes advantage of people's goodwill to blackmail them into voting for him. It is unacceptable!

Does it hurt you that she introduces herself?

CP: We don't know, we don't have tools at the demographic level.

In a few months, the pardon is supposed to be approved, which affects you as well. Are you celebrating?

CP: No, because it is a result of the arms delivery agreement with the Spanish state. But a distinction must be made between the personal and political components. I will celebrate the return of the exiles. For them, this is a personal victory, but I don't think it's a victory for independence.

C C: This is great news for Spain, which has a very big problem called Catalonia, which is difficult to control and needs to be calmed. This can only be done in cooperation with pro-independence leaders. How do you do that? You threaten them, repress them, lock them in prison, send them into exile, and then allow them to return to normal life. Business as usual By versus appeasement.

Puigdemont stated that he would return to complete the process and negotiate a referendum.

CP: Spain will never negotiate a referendum. Therefore, it is the same as what Esquerra offered.

Do you assume that Spain will never negotiate a referendum and, instead, will accept unilateral independence for Catalonia?

CP: No, we are not saying that Spain will accept it, it clearly will not. The question is: What will they do?

C C: Assuming there is a scenario where Spain is willing to negotiate anything, it is certainly not the scenario in which President Puigdemont returns after the PSOE amnesty. Because you have no bargaining power, you have already given up.

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The inauguration could be for Salvador Illa or for Carles Puigdemont, and everything depends on their votes. What do they do?

C C: The first is not to negotiate with blackmailers. “I will come back if I invest…” No, let's sit at a table and let them explain what they want to do. If we succeed in making the pro-independence parties want the country to be independent, they will make us work with them. Otherwise we will not accept the pressure of emotional blackmail. A government like the last one, made up of independents who do not want independence, makes no difference to the socialist government.

And if the inauguration was for Aragones?

C C: It's the same answer.

What do you consider a good result?

C C: To enter. If the people give us 15 representatives, this is a revolution. If he gives us 68, no one can stop him. If he gives us 3 representatives, we will open a gap that the parties will not be able to fill again.

Is he right-wing or left-wing?

C C: In this country, if you're pro-independence and you're right-wing, you have to accept that some left-wing things have to be done. And if you're pro-independence and you're a leftist, you have to accept that some right-wing things have to be done.

Specific examples: inheritance tax. Are they supportive?

CP: The discussion about this tax today in Catalan politics lacks all subtlety. The rate should be lowered, and perhaps the floor should be adjusted, but let's just say that fiscal policy has many variables, and if we were judging, we would worry about many other things.

Higher than rent.

C C: I think if the rent cap continues for more than four years, we will start to see a deterioration in housing stock, less rental supply, and less construction. The parties have been turning a blind eye for 40 years, and now, with desperate people, they throw us into an ideological battle over price control, when we know that in all the experiments that have happened in different cities, this has led to a decline in rents. garden. Seems criminal to me.

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